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He Said, She Said: Can you take money from a woman?

Sunday, July 29, 2012
In a series called "He Said, She Said," Golf Digest Associate Editor Ashley Mayo will address your views on gender-related issues in golf. The former collegiate golfer is 27. She somehow maintains a 5 handicap despite living in Manhattan.

Golf becomes more fun when money is on the line. I’m generally the first person in my foursome to suggest a bet -- anything that won’t break my wallet -- for two main reasons: the added pressure turns the game into a sport; and betting can be a great icebreaker if I’m paired with three guys I’ve never played with before.

But I get upset when I lose and a guy refuses to take my money. I suggested the bet. I played from the correct tees. I didn’t play as well as my opponent. Why should you, Mr. Champion, feel uncomfortable taking my money just because I’m a girl?

That’s why Golf Digest asked the following question, via Twitter and Facebook:


The answers we got varied from “Heck no!” to “OF COURSE!”

Scott, I appreciate your intent. But being a “gentleman” on the course means helping us look for balls and making sure we grab a bottle of cold water when it’s available, not refusing to take our money. We knew the stakes before we agreed to the bet.

Why do the answers to these questions matter, Cilli? Whether you’re married to the girl, dating her or TRYING to date her, a bet is a bet. You should never feel bad about seeing it through.

Smart man, Zach! This is actually a superb idea. Fellas, take note: I’m fairly certain all girls would appreciate this smooth move.

  • Tom Blake, via Facebook: “I wouldn't bet in the first place. It's a no-win situation for me because I wouldn't take her money WHEN I won, but would have to pay up if I lost and that would be double jeopardy.”
Tom, take her money. And isn’t this “double jeopardy” business something you agree to when you bet against a guy? This risk is precisely what makes a bet so exciting, no?

  • Michael Leighton Wolff, via Facebook: “You're supposed to let them win! Haha.”
You’re supposed to let your boss win, Mike, not a girl.

Amen, Andy.

Precisely right, Todd.

  • Kimberley McBee Ward, via Facebook: “My daughter takes her daddy's money every time!”
Kimberly, your daughter is my new hero.

Related: Stina Sternberg's five rules to follow when playing golf with a woman.

Under no circumstance should you ever feel bad about taking money from a female golfer. As Bruce White says, via Facebook, “A bet, and many other things in this world, has no gender.”

--Ashley Mayo

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He Said, She Said: Should you play WITH or AGAINST your girlfriend?

Monday, July 16, 2012
In a weekly series called "He Said, She Said," Golf Digest Associate Editor Ashley Mayo will address your views on gender-related issues in golf. The former collegiate golfer is 27. She somehow maintains a 5 handicap despite living in Manhattan.

I’ve recently started “seeing” someone (those quotes are there for a reason), and we played our first round of golf together about a week ago. The thought of competing against each other never crossed my mind. He and I would play on the same team, against my two coworkers. Period. End of story.

But a few days after our round, a colleague told me that she and her husband always play AGAINST one another on the course. “We’d kill each other if we played on the same team,” she says.

So what’s the right approach? Play with each other and risk a team loss, or actively root against each other? The varied responses we received when Golf Digest asked the following question (on Facebook and Twitter) suggests there’s no right answer:

Hundreds of you weighed in, and the slight majority of you say that couples should play WITH each other.
 

Exactly right, Franks. That’s why I’ve always preferred to play with my boyfriend. (In related news, that "boyfriend" word makes me queasy.) Winning is fun and losing has always indicated how we'll be able to handle tricky situations. (Better to find out on a golf course than anywhere else.)


You're a smart man, Martin. Clearly, winning or losing WITH her is much less painful than listening to her gloat or complain for the rest of the evening. Trust me.

  • Steve Groner, via Facebook: "Nothing good can come from either scenario."
I disagree, Steve. If you can’t handle a team loss on the golf course, it’s likely you won’t be able to handle mortgage payments, household chores and all those other fun particulars adult couples have to juggle. 


  • Jason Newsome, via Facebook: "Against.... My significant other is still a beginner, and it would be easier to beat her than beat someone else with her."
Winning is not the point, Paul and Jason. If your girlfriend is a beginning golfer but she’s interested in playing with you, put your competitive flare on hold for one round and focus instead on helping her feel comfortable. (The fact that she's even interested in the sport means you've already "won." Don't mess it up.)

  • Danny McCann, via Facebook: "Both will lead to a fast divorce."
I’m pretty sure that if one round of golf spurs divorce, the relationship has much deeper problems.

  • Polycarp Odero Ongadi, via Facebook: "The best way to go about it is to let the ladies decide. It will be wiser that way."
I won't disagree here. Women like my colleague might genuinely prefer to play against their significant others, but part of me thinks that (deep down) most women would want nothing more than to hear their guys say, "Of course I want you to be my partner."

Ultimately, if you and your sweetheart play against each other, the car ride home will always be occupied by one winner and one loser. If you play with each other, that car will either transport two winners (success!) or two losers who can use their latest match to learn about one another and support one another. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

--Ashley Mayo

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He Said, She Said: What tees should she play from?

Wednesday, June 6, 2012
In a weekly series called "He Said, She Said," Golf Digest Associate Editor Ashley Mayo will address your views on gender-related issues in golf. The former collegiate golfer is 26. She somehow maintains a 5 handicap despite living in Manhattan.

“What tees are you playing today?” That’s what guys always ask me before I head to the first hole. And when I say, “Any tee that puts me at 5,800-6,000 yards,” they roll their eyes and try to make me feel guilty about playing such a “short” course.

Well, I refuse to feel guilty. You see, 5,900 yards is my comfort zone. It’s where I’m challenged. It’s where I have fun. It’s where I keep track of my handicap.

120612_hesaid_shesaid_460.jpg
So it was fascinating to sift through the responses Golf Digest got when it asked, via Twitter and Facebook, the following question:


Let’s begin with the kinds of answers that made me furrow my eyebrows:


Bobby isn’t the only guy who played the "equality" card. Sure, “equality” would hold true if the woman regularly records her handicap from the same tees as her competitor. Otherwise, playing the same tees is far from equal.

Jen explains it nicely:


Thanks, Jen. My eyebrows are back in place. On the other end of the spectrum were guys who demanded that women play from “women's” tees.


Please know, Zachery, that there’s no such thing as “women's” tees. Tee boxes are created to accommodate golfers of various playing abilities, not golfers of different genders. Indeed, I’ve played with many men who’d be far better off if they teed it up from the forward tees. Just saying.

Other guys decided to “chivalrously” respond to Golf Digest.


Thanks, One Swing, but chivalry plays no part in determining the right tee box. While she should never have to play from any yardage that extends beyond her comfort zone, she shouldn’t milk the system by choosing a tee box that make the course much too short.

Lastly, a migraine-inducing response:

Dee Mike Carbone, via Facebook: "Depends on her size, is she a burly girl?"

Dee, size doesn’t matter. Really, it doesn’t.

Guys, if you have such an issue playing against us from different tee boxes, I’d welcome a unique challenge: come up to our tees. C’mon, I dare you.

--Ashley Mayo


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He Said, She Said: Do women play slower than men?

Tuesday, May 22, 2012
In a weekly series called "He Said, She Said," Golf Digest Associate Editor Ashley Mayo will address your views on gender-related issues in golf. The former collegiate golfer is 26. She somehow maintains a 6 handicap despite living in Manhattan.

Slow play discussions are hot right now, but the topic has been on my mind for a while -- even before Morgan Pressel and Kevin Na made their way into the headlines. Since playing slowly is a stereotype blanketed over all female golfers, I’m fully aware that men think they’re in for a five-plus hour round as I walk toward the first tee.

So I couldn't wait to rummage through the more than 100 responses Golf Digest got when it asked the following question on Facebook and Twitter:

Guys, would you call yourself a fast player, a slow player, or somewhere in between? Ladies, what would you call yourselves?

120522_pace_290.jpgThe results: 85 percent of men consider themselves fast, 1.5 percent think they’re slow and 13.5 say they’re in between. Conversely, just 45 percent of women think they’re fast, 27 percent admit they’re slow and 28 percent say they’re in between.

Can it be true? Are women really slower than men? No way. (I’m basing my assertion purely upon my own experiences, of course.) I’ve noticed that while men tend to blame others when their group starts lagging behind, women tend to blame themselves. Even though I don’t consider myself a slow player (my pre-shot routine doesn’t even include a practice swing), I always think it’s my fault when my foursome starts holding up the group behind us. So I’d bet that these women who think they’re slow likely play as fast as the men who “know” they’re fast.

Another observation: not a single woman who responded to Golf Digest say they should slow down, but several guys, like Yannick Bÿlow, told Golf Digest that they play “much too fast.”

And there’s this:


Tony, that’s less than seven minutes a hole. And there are two of you. Tone it down.

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He Said, She Said: Guys, stop spitting on the golf course.

Tuesday, May 15, 2012
In a weekly series called "He Said, She Said," Golf Digest Associate Editor Ashley Mayo will address your views on gender-related issues in golf. The former collegiate golfer is 26. She somehow maintains a 6 handicap despite living in Manhattan.

Apparently, lots of guys swear, spit, throw clubs and pee on the golf course when we ladies aren’t around. These are the behaviors most men cited when answering the following question, which Golf Digest asked via Facebook and Twitter: “Guys, how do you behave differently when you play golf with a woman?”

120514_akm2_460.jpgThat's me and co-worker Alex Myers. He probably behaves differently when I'm not around. (Photograph by Christian Iooss)

Stewart Kumar, for example, tweeted, “I swear less and suck in my gut. Maybe that's why I'm winded by the turn.” As painful as it might be, Stew, keep on sucking in that gut.

Maurice Poe, also on Twitter, says, “I spit less and uh, make sure to take proper advantage of on course bathrooms.” Good move, Maurice. I speak on behalf of all women when I say that spitting is a universally unattractive habit.

Robert Kneisley tweeted, “I don't piss behind every tree and throw my clubs away from the ladies tees!” Thanks, Robby. The big trees located far away from the tee box are fair game. (In fact, I’m jealous you guys can get away with relieving yourselves on the golf course.) But that small bush 10 feet from the fairway? Not fair game. Ever.

Also, while I appreciate the fact that guys like Rob avoid throwing clubs towards the forward tees, please refrain from throwing clubs at all, even when you’re playing with the guys (or by yourself). I don't think it's ever an acceptable behavior. You’re on a golf course.  You’re not allowed to complain.

Chris McNeal makes dramatic changes when he plays with women. “No 3-woods -- all drivers; talk more; attempt to cut more doglegs and aim at sucker pins.” He really puts on a show! When Golf Digest asked him if these adjustments help or hurt him, he said, “As well as anyone could be expected to play when swinging too hard. Mostly worse, but when it works it's awesome!” Tone it down, Chris. Most gals won’t notice those 10 extra yards off the tee. They will notice, however, how much time they spent helping you look for your ball.

Mike Lyon, via Facebook, says, “Make sure my tee shot gets past the ladies tee.” Mike, if reaching the forward tee box is a serious concern, do yourself (and your playing partners) a favor and move up a set of tees. Trust me, you won’t be giving up your man card by doing so.

My wish before today was for the men I play with to behave exactly as they always do. After all, knowing that I might be inhibiting a guy from being who he is makes me uneasy. But now that I know what most of you hooligans do when you’re among men, I welcome these minor behavioral adjustments.
 
Oh, and to those of you who said, “I don’t behave differently,” I don’t believe you.

--Ashley Mayo


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He Said, She Said: Do people actually flirt on the golf course?

Tuesday, May 8, 2012
In a weekly series called "He Said, She Said," Golf Digest Associate Editor Ashley Mayo will address your views on gender-related issues in golf. The former collegiate golfer is 26. She somehow maintains a 6 handicap despite living in Manhattan.

I’ve gotten my fair share of unsolicited “lessons” on the driving range. And since I’m generally oblivious to flirtatious behaviors, I’d always assumed these guys had the purest of intentions. (I also ignored all of their advice.) But my buddy recently pointed out that guys are often flirting when they give “tips” to girls.

Oh, boys and their sneaky ways. So Golf Digest asked, on Facebook and Twitter, the following question:

Fellas: Have you ever given a girl a "flirty" golf lesson? Ladies: Have you ever received one?

Your responses varied. Chris tweeted, “Really, do people actually try to do them? I thought that was only in movies as a joke.”

Apparently, Chris, they do. Folks like Jeff Bricker and Mario Morales have ignited longtime relationships by using the I’m-not-teaching-you-I’m-hitting-on-you technique. And Serge Preval continues to flirt with his wife: “I do it to my wife all the time. That's the only reason I let her come out on the course with me.”

Not sure I totally support this behavior, Serge, but who am I to get in the way of your smooth moves?

Several women chimed in, saying that they’ve given flirty golf lessons. Jeanne Weaver, via Facebook, said, “Turn that one around for this Lady ; ) As an LPGA Instructor, did I ever give a 'flirty' lesson? Dayumm straight, I did!”

As someone who’s only dated guys who play as well or slightly worse than I do (or not at all), I might have to employ this technique. Would I ever approach a random dude on the driving range? Not a chance. Would I touch my date inappropriately in the name of giving a golf tip? Nope. But would I offer a tip that’s both helpful and has a double meaning? Hmmm, perhaps.

As Regina Hammons points out on Facebook, physical touching is not needed for an entirely flirtatious golf lesson. Take this clip from Tin Cup, when Kevin Costner gives Rene Russo a quick golf lesson that is both accurate and sensual:



Like I said, I might have to try something like this soon.

--Ashley Mayo

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He Said, She Said: Real men aren't afraid to lose

Tuesday, May 1, 2012
"If you're the best golfer in the group," my mom used to say, while waving her index finger in the air, "you're in the wrong group." She’s right (as always). Playing with better golfers somehow elevates my own game.
 
120501_hesaid_shesaid_460.jpgI'm sure most of you agree. But men, what would happen if you got paired with a female golfer who's better than you? Would your ego take an unbearable hit?
 
Golf Digest asked the following question on Facebook and Twitter Monday night:
 
Let's assume you're a guy who shoots in the mid 80s. Would you rather play with a woman who shoots in the 90s, or one who shoots in the 70s?

The results are in: Fifty four percent of you would rather play with a woman who shoots in the 70s; 22 percent of you don't care, as long as the woman is pleasant and knows golf etiquette; 15 percent of you just want to play with someone who’s cute and single, even if that means she doesn’t know which end of the club to grip; and nine percent of you wouldn’t be able to stomach the idea of getting beaten by a woman.
 
First, I'd like to ask those of you who only care about "hotness factor" to honestly tell me: Does the idea of playing golf with a hottie who can't break 120 really sound like fun? Wouldn't you rather entertain her with some other activity? Think about that for a second.
 
As for the nine percent of you whose egos are woefully fragile, how is playing worse than a woman different from playing worse than a man? I'm pretty sure the year is 2012. As Jim Brown says, via Twitter, "If you can't appreciate good golf, you should quit."
 
Apparently for some men, playing worse than a girl is an issue. Take a recent experience I had on a golf course in Bronx. I arrived as a single, joining three random guys. While I always get the oh-no-we're-about-to-play-with-a-woman look as I head to the first tee, guys usually exhale after they realize I know how to swing a golf club. One curmudgeon in this threesome, however, became blatantly irritated that I was beating him. "I didn't hit mine pure," he said after I outdrove him. And, "I'll go hang myself now," after I hit it closer to the flagstick than he did. He didn't even shake my hand after our round. What a nice New Yorker.

(Related: Are women mistreated in the world of public golf?)
 
Most of you, however, refreshingly accept the notion of playing with a better female golfer. Justin Cathcart says, via Twitter: "The challenge to step-up my game would be huge and it would be fun for me to try."
 
And I'll let you in on a little secret: while you're mentally comparing scores and grinding over putts, we're out there to have fun and compete against the course. Trust me, a good female golfer plays with more mediocre men than you can imagine. Loosen up a bit. We'll only remember you for being either pleasant or an ass, not for being a lousy golfer.

--Ashley Mayo

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He Said, She Said: Is golf on a first date ever a good idea?

Tuesday, April 24, 2012
In a weekly series called "He Said, She Said," Golf Digest Associate Editor Ashley Mayo will address your views on gender-related issues in golf. The former collegiate golfer is 26. She somehow maintains a 6 handicap despite living in Manhattan.

You've heard it before: Golf exposes character. Those unlucky bounces, unfortunate lies and long waits between shots can really test a man’s patience. That's why I've always considered golf a great date. As a woman who's been playing for 12 years, I've been paired with my fair share of whackos. Better to find out if a guy is crazy before it's too late, no?
 
But is golf on a first date ever a good idea? When Golf Digest asked that very question on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest, the responses were passionate, if not necessarily in agreement. After tallying 532 votes, 57 percent of you think golf on a first date is a great idea, 28 percent think it's a terrible idea, and 15 percent of you think the range or mini golf is a safer way to start out.

120424_man_woman_golf_460.jpgFellas: Don't ever do this on the golf course. Seriously.
 
Sure, golf on a first date has its benefits. Think about it: what better window is there into someone's personality? As Dave tweets, "If the guy or gal goes all Tommy Bolt after a chunked chip, RUN!" And Matt Grandone agrees: "Golf has a way of bringing out all of a person's imperfections, might as well get it all out in the open from jump street."
 
But golf on a first date is also fraught with danger. Being trapped with someone you realize you can't stand could turn an otherwise pleasant afternoon into an excruciating adventure. As Jennie Ryan Luptak tweets, "A frustration-ruined round is worse than bad dinner conversation." And several guys (not-so subtly) suggest that playing golf on a first date sounds like a frightening experience. Like Tony Ostheimer, via Facebook: "THIS IS MY NIGHTMARE!!!" And Anthony Shizas, also via Facebook: "No need to have worlds colliding. Utter chaos!"

When I posed the question to my buddy (let's just call him Bob), he said that "golf for most guys is their escape with their buds, their chance to drink some beers, smoke cigars, piss in the woods and be a 'rebel.'" Good to know, Bobby. Have lots of fun in the woods. Alone.
 
Ultimately, I say golf on a first date is too risky. Better to meet at the driving range on a first date (yes, this still gives you fellas a chance to give us "flirty" golf lessons), enjoy a few drinks or a long walk on a second date, then venture out to the golf course on a third or fourth date -- just to be sure you can stand someone's company for an extended period.
 
Oh, and once we're on the golf course, be man enough to handle a good beating. Several guys say they wouldn't be able to manage playing with a woman who plays better (ahem, Rob Sievers). My girl Dani Fankhauser has a nice response: "If he's ok with you showing him up, he's a keeper!"

--Ashley Mayo
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